Zune, better but still…
Posted by ctitanic on 09/17/08 in Music Players, Zune
Yesterday I updated my Zune to the latest software and firmware, Version 3.0. While the PC part of the software did not change too much, it still slow, consuming a lot of resources, being the last thing you want to have to handling your music collection, with a very simplistic way to categorize your music taste (good or bad, come on, give me back the 5 stars system), the mp3 player part of it has changed up to the point that I believe that there is not any other mp3 player capable of compete against the Zune.
This new version has put in full us the WiFi capability of this device allowing people to check the online store and purchase songs on it. But this is not all, now you can tag songs while you are listening the radio and buy them later on, when you connect your Zune to your PC. I tested this feature Yesterday and I love it.
They added a few more options like Games, a more sophisticated social, etc, which do not mean to much for me but I’m sure that teenagers will love it.
Yes, Zune is in my opinion the mp3 player that give you more for your money. You won’t find any mp3 where you can buy songs right from your FM radio, that option along separate this player from the rest.
Now the only thing that we really need is Microsoft to go back to the PC part of it and redo that part form 0 because what we have is not good at all.
Written by ctitanic · Filed Under Music Players, Zune
Tagged:
Did you like this post?
Share your vote!
(No Ratings Yet)
You can also participate in other conversation in our active forums with 200,000 other Members. It only takes 2 minutes to 
Don’t know if I agree with you on the software side: I have never used iTunes because I never owned an iPod, but if I compare the resources used by the Zune software on my pc I can say it is using approx 70 - 110mb of memory compared to for example Thunderbird which uses approx 70mb being idle or IE 80mb with 3 websites on as many tabs opened.
In frankness, ever since I use a Zune (Zune80 since a year almost) I have never even gone back to using WMP and I am quite happy with how the software works. Of course there can be improvements, like with everything in this life, but it’s minor things like the star system for ratings (I don’t use ratings anyway) or (now that the new software is out) the ability to use more albums for mixed view on the now playing screen. I don’t know why but there is no albums in my collection it will work with, even though most albums have their info “extracted” from the AMG database Zune connects to to obtain info on albums.
All in all I 100% agree with you that the Zune is something to be beat now. I have compared the audio quality of iPod against Zune and the Zune is a clear winner (with the same earbuds on both players, premium Zune buds)
Well, who ever used the first version of Zune PC Software and compares it to this version will tell you that would be better to stay with that old WMP based version. I would prefer to have WMP handling my Zune than to have the Zune software. But that´s another of those things that you can’t understand. Microsoft does not allow WMP to handle the Zune. Come on! It’s your mp3 player. How you can have and sell a player that it’s not compatible with your own software!
ctitanic,
I honestly think you’re in the very small minority in thinking that the original Zune 1.0 desktop software was better than what we have now. I thought the original Zune software was really quite horrible - it’s based on Windows Media Player, which really isn’t very good software. The 2.0 software, designed from the ground up, was a huge improvement in speed, and while it was missing some of the basic meta-tagging features it needed, now that we’re at the 3.0 level most of those issues have been fixed. There’s still some stuff that needs fixing and improving (like video metadata tagging, a better view for photos, better video transcoding with more codec support, etc.), but overall I like the software so much that I have it installed on all my computers and use it for music listening instead of WMP11.
I’m curious, why don’t you give some specifics about what you don’t like about the new Zune software? Your complaints are always very vague and I don’t understand them. On my PC, with just under 13,000 songs, the Zune software uses up about 60 MB of RAM. Outlook is currently using 238 MB of RAM, and Firefox? 377 MB of RAM. So I definitely don’t see the Zune software as a “resource hog” in comparison to the other programs I keep open. What are you comparing the Zune software to? Winamp? Not a fair comparison in any way.
Jason Dunn
http://www.zunethoughts.com
Jason, I said it at my post. Everytime that I open Zune I have to wait couple of minutes before it opens, navigate within the software is extremely slow. In my case I have all my music in an external HDD connected via USB2 so I’m expecting to act a little bit slower but not up to the point I’m seen it. I’m compering Zune with just WMP11 running on that same PC and I have a real good response on WMP11 just browsing my music collection (around 4000 songs). Another thing that I’m suffering is an endless syncing process. It syncs, and after few seconds it start syncing again. Sometimes it ends removing a song that I know is there and then it starts again the syncing process to end adding the same song again. And it’s not just that song, it happens with any songs, any album, any artist. I have that same collection, with that same hardware setup using WinAmp, iTunes and WMP11 and all of them act more responsive.
Need more details?
I’m using it in a Fujitsu P1610 running with a Core Solo Processor at 1.2 GHz with 1 GB of RAM. And again, using a USB2 External HDD with all my music on that HDD. And again, I can manage all my collection on WMP11 without any problem and a lot more responsive than in Zune. I blame this poor performance on the endless syncing process going on and on adding and removing songs to my library something that does not happen in WMP11, iTunes or WinAmp, all of them installed in that same machine.
BTW, Jason, I can say the same thing, you are one of the only ones that I know that think that version 2 and version 3 was or it’s better than version 1. WMP11 is not the best software around I would never used if it was not because of my Zune. But here is another thing, why Microsoft does not allow users to manage Zune with WMP11 being this one a Microsoft software too! Let’s people use with the actual player what ever suits them better.
Alright, so lets see CTitanic (Frank) brings up a good point, the software was alot cooler for Z1. There were alot of complaints regarding the switching over to using a Zune Team designed application vs. WMP11. Afterall, whatever happened to Microsoft’s “Plays for Sure” business model!?
I run my software on a Vista 3GB server or on my Dual Core XP laptop with 2 GB of ram and the new software has alot of lag as it renders the interface. Although the software may have a small RAM footprint it does not account for all the nuances of the application or essentials packages that run it (.NET, XML, Image API, Wireless API, etc). Even the Zune device has a few response issues while being connected to the USB with or without the software open, this tells me there is some additional debugging needed. (I crashed my Zune and had to clear all content last night)
Now, with my specs being damn near AWESOME…. I have to consider the performance of the Fujitsu P1610 which is a great device, but are you running Vista, which I assume is Vista Business. And an external USB drive. Ha Ha! What more do you want? Expect some delays in the system getting caught up to your library size, comparing your Zune device library and then updating metadata and resyncs.
If your using a Western Digital MyBook specifically, then you will have problems since it has the quirkiest operations that will decide when to go offline even in the middle of long transfers. Try connecting one to a PS3 and you will see what I mean.
WHAT DO I THINK ABOUT THE NEW SOFTWARE:
(I love it but also want to see more, as for the device…)
Lots of great features and changes to go through. But if we are going in the direction of direct internet connectivity via the WiFi then they need to consider the following:
· Social connectivity, message reading (sending will be difficult without a keyboard unless they offer a keyboard that can be attached to the bottom of the device)
· RSS Feed reader
· Streaming music video services
· Game play via the internet
· Podcast updating / downloading
Adam Stafford
GotZune.com, Staff Writer
AdamEntity.com, Personal Blog
Like I said Adam, I expect delays but not more than what I see in WMP11 running on that same configuration. I still looking for a logical explanation to my endless syncing adding and removing songs. And do not ask me to reset the whole library and start over again with a new one because I have done that a few times. ;)
ctitanic,
Thanks for the further details. I can’t imagine *anything* being remotely responsive on the Fujitsu P1610. That would me criticizing software for being “slow” running on my Samsung Q1 Ultra - *everything* sucks on it compared to a desktop computer or a real laptop. That’s just the way those little devices are. A 1.2 Ghz CPU? 1 GB of RAM? That’s not a computer, that’s a PDA, *especially* if you’re running Vista. ;-) You’re just ASKING for crappy performance with that setup, so why are you surprised when that’s what you get? Even the cheapest $299 computer on the market today would run *circles* around the P1610, so it’s not surprising that Microsoft isn’t optimizing their software for what you’re using, which is the equivalent of a computer from four or five years ago. I don’t mean to sound insulting, but lets be reasonable here!
The Zune software takes four to five seconds to start on my computers, and that’s with my music being up on the network. I think they can continue to optimize the Zune software and make it faster, but 4-5 seconds to me is pretty darn good. Regarding the endless synching, something is wrong - the Zune software does not normally do that, unless maybe you’ve put a lot of Zune Cards on your device and it’s constantly pushing down new music that your friends are listening to. I’d suggest a complete uninstall of the Zune software, running Unzoone to clean it up, rebooting, and installing 3.0 from scratch.
Jason Dunn
http://www.zunethoughts.com
Oh, one last comment:
“I expect delays but not more than what I see in WMP11 running on that same configuration.”
Why is that? The Zune software, if I understand correctly what I’ve read, is based on a completely different database engine - as software, it has more in common with Microsoft SQL Server and WMP11 has more in common with Microsoft Access. So, yes, it’s heavier than WMP11, and on hardware that’s slow, it will be slower.
Seriously, try the Zune software on an average $499 computer today ($489 @ Dell: Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.4 GHz, 2 GB RAM, 250 GB 7200 RPM hard drive) and you’ll understand what I’m talking about.
Jason Dunn
http://www.zunethoughts.com
Jason, you are a smart person. And I respect your opinion but… you should read again my posts. I’m compering software in the same setup. I’m not expecting miracles, I’m expecting to see and get a better performance or the same performance than what I get using other programs designed by the same company that designs and distribute Zune. I’m a fully mobile guy. I do not own a PC. I paid for my P1610 4 times what I could have paid for any fast desktop, that tells you that money was not an issue, the main issue to me was to stay really mobile. There is a trade off, performance. Well, I have been using UMPC and netbooks as my main PC for around 2 years so I have enough experience to tell you what is the best performance you can get on one of those, I even keep at my site http://www.tweaks2k2.com/Vista_score.htm a few performance tables to keep track of what is going on in this market. The Core Solo at 1.2 is not the faster but it’s not bad at all. But again… that’s not the point. The point is that Zune 3.0 performs a lot worse than WMP11. That probably is less noticeable in your super fast computer but still that does not take off the fact that it performs badly compare with WMP11. The fact that you use it in a super fast pc, state of the art, does not mean that every body out there have the same situation. Just be fair for one minute and go to Zune.net forum and read all that people post in there. Check what was the reaction when Zune 2 was released. It’s hard, really hard to find a few comments saying anything at all good about Zune 2. And I’m not making this up, all is there, ready for anyone to read it. These are facts. It’s like denying that Vista is slower than XP. It’s does make sense to deny that.
Zune team have not think about optimizing the Zune software to run in a slow computer, that does not surprise me at all. What really piss me off if that they have not optimized even to run at the same level than WMP11, a software designed by the same company that pays their salary! That’s what is pissing me off.
Jason, you design software to make it better than what has been done previously. In the case of Microsoft and Zune, this has been in the other way around.
And for the record, I have Zune running at work in a Dual Core at 2.6 GHz and yes, it runs better, but even there it still slower than WMP11. Which is like I said nothing good to compare with. But that’s another point that I really don’t want to touch.
ctitanic, your poor grasp of the english language makes you unfit to write for public consumption. please stop. (you do make a good point, but it’s just too painful to pick out. have someone write it for you.)
@ jf : Don’t be ridiculous, not everybody is fluent in english, respect that he at least tries to express himself so that we can understand his problem with the Zune software. If you’re not interested than at least show some respect by not posting stupid remarks, byw ever heard of the use of capital letters when starting a phrase?
@ ctitanic : I’m afraid I have only known Zune v.2 software, as I am in Europe I didn’t have the chance to purchase the Zune sooner :)
I run a Core2duo 2.6Ghz and 2Gb Ram and like Jason my Zune software is up and running in about 4 seconds. I never really compared handling my music collection with WMP 11 because prior to owning the Zune I must confess it wasn’t as well organised and didn’t care much for it anyway.
In any case, there is always something to improve software and hardware-wise so I suggest you do let your problems/complaints know on the Zune.net forums so that they hopefully address them in the next revision. It does seem they read/listen to us, the customers, hence the improvements from 2.0 to 3.0.
Thanks Erik, I have sent my comments about it to Zune Team using our MVP channels but to be honest never have received any replay back from them.
Yesterday I was thinking to post another article about this all thing but then I gave up on that idea because there are things that can´t be changed. When I starting coding - believe it or not I’m an IT Manager but most of the thing I do is Programming for a private company - my teachers always said that you should program using the slower pc you can find in the market because that will push you to create the best and most efficient code. Today things - at least on Microsoft teams - are done differently. They program in super fast pcs and as result they have really badly coded programs which performance just bad. And when anyone criticizes this all you get back is comments like the one you just read from Jason, “buy a faster PC”, very Microsoft typical.
The other thing I learned was, if you are working in a team, please do not reinvent the wheel. Please talk to other members of the team and take whatever they have that can be useful to your code. And this is something that I are not seen lately on Microsoft and that I have raised a few times already. It’s like there are a bunch of teams everyone of them doing whatever they want and not talking to each other. Why I say this? Just look around, you have Media Center, which have it’s music library and player, you have WMP11 which also have a music library and player, you have Origami Project which also have another player and music library (these 3 use the WMP engine) and now you have Zune, with a complete different engine and library. Why a single company needs 3 different “music players”? Why Zune is not compatible with the rest? What happened to “play for sure”? Why Zune is ignoring “play for sure” a concept started by Microsoft? and my last question, why to release a version of Zune that performs worse than the first version? There are few cases that I have seen in the last 15 years where a software is released and the overall opinion is that its performance is worse than its predecessor. And weirdly enough Microsoft is one of the companies that repeatedly do that.
I love Microsoft and I defend Microsoft whenever I can from every unfairly attack I have seen or read. But that does not make me blind. There are many things that Microsoft has to change and that can’t be changed spending 300 millions in funny tv ads. And if you ask me from where changes should be started I would take all current pcs at Microsoft and replace them by Pentium III at 600 MHz and 512 MB of RAM. Learn to program for those PC and you will have the whole market in your hands. Programing for the state of the art pcs only results in incomprehension and complains from the market that feel being pushed to “buy” new hardware if they want to use the new software.
And my last point, I do not write thinking about what needs to be said to please anybody. I write to please myself, and it does not matter to me if what I write is what some are expecting me to say or write. I do not function on that way.
I personally like the Zune software, and due to the connections to the social it has replaced Winamp now as my music software of choice…however I do have occasionally performance issues with it on my top-of-the-business-notebook-line Thinkpad T61.
After reading the comments by jason, Frank and others I did some experimenting. First I moved my Collection from an external HD to my main drive, and that sped things up a bit overall. Secondly, I noticed that the serious performance problems (lag, system freezes) were when I had a highly graphics heavy application up, like Second Life. It seems that my Dual Core Centrino CPU handles the software fine, but the premium eyecandy requires the full attention of my nVidia Quadro FX 140 (128MB). I went to Settings > Software > Display >Screen Graphics and took the slider down to Basic, now no more problems, even with a web browser and Second Life running.
Just something to keep in mind perhaps when looking at Zune performance…graphics may be playing a part in any issues.